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Koroshiya wrote on May 21st, 2007 1

Hey I just wanted to come here and say hello.<br />
<br />
Since I was previously a druid as my main before joining AoW I was asked a question in regards to druid receiving so much AP on their items and why that is considered balanced.<br />
<br />
Anyway, I tried to give a brief explanation and I think I failed miserably to fully explain the reasoning.<br />
<br />
Recently however, there was a post bade by another druid on EJ, and I thought it was a good explanation and show an inherit flaw, depending on your perspective, in the method used by the game currently.<br />
<br />
Anyway, now my post isn't just a hello, but has something worth noting.<br />
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<br />
Before the creation of feral attack power, Druid weapons were typically those which involved high amounts of crit/strength/agility (i.e.: The Unstoppable Force). In 1.8, Blizzard introduced a new stat: Feral Attack Power which was supposed to help bridge the gap which was created between the scaling "real" weapons and the Druid "paw weapon." At first it seemed like a good idea, and there was much rejoicing. However, a glaring problem is starting to develop. But first look at the history of the pre-TBC FAP weapons:<br />
<br />
Hammer of Bestial Fury<br />
52.4dps / iLevel 71 / 154 FAP<br />
<br />
Blessed Qiraji War Hammer<br />
60.7dps / iLevel 70 / 280 FAP<br />
<br />
Mace of Unending Life<br />
41.5dps / iLevel 70 / 140 FAP<br />
<br />
End of Dreams<br />
43.5dps / iLevel 83 / 305 FAP<br />
<br />
Looking at just the HOBF and BQWH, they do not have sacrificed DPS (their DPS matches exactly with that of equivalent iLevel non-FAP weapons). The MOUL and EOD do have sacrificed base DPS due to their caster stats; they are considered caster weapons but they have FAP strapped on as a bonus. How much FAP was allocated to them? Exactly enough to make the weapon's base DPS plus the FAP match that of an equivalent iLevel weapon. For example:<br />
<br />
Sickle of Unyielding Strength<br />
51.5dps<br />
<br />
Mace of Unending Life<br />
41.5dps + 140/14 = 51.5dps<br />
<br />
<br />
Harbinger of Doom<br />
65.3dps<br />
<br />
End of Dreams<br />
43.5dps + 305/14 = 65.3dps<br />
<br />
So it seems that Druids are on the better side of the deal here for the End of Dreams only. Due to the base form dps of about 55, we gain about 10dps more. With the MOUL we actually lose DPS relative to other classes, most likely due to the low iLevel. If this trend of one-handed FAP weapons continued, Druids would gain more and more relative DPS as iLevel increased. However, this is for one-handed weapons only; assuming that other classes would be dual-wielding or using a two-hander, their base DPS would be higher. Thankfully, Blizzard "rectified" this in the Burning Crusade with two-handed FAP weapons. Now fast forward to where we are today:<br />
<br />
Staff of Beasts (DPS matches with Honed Voidaxe)<br />
60.2dps / iLevel 103 / 298 FAP<br />
60.2 + 298/14 = 81.5dps<br />
<br />
Dreamer's Dragonstaff (DPS matches with High Warlord's Claymore)<br />
63dps / iLevel 115 / 423 FAP<br />
63 + 423/14 = 93.2dps<br />
<br />
Terestian's Stranglestaff (DPS matches with Despair)<br />
67.2dps / iLevel 115 / 647 FAP<br />
67.2 + 647/14 = 113.4dps<br />
<br />
Wildfury Greatstaff (DPS matches with World Breaker)<br />
69.4dps / iLevel 128 / 731 FAP<br />
69.4 + 731/14 = 121.6dps<br />
<br />
Pillar of Ferocity (Let's assume it matches to a weapon with 130.5 DPS)<br />
71.5dps / iLevel 141 / 826 FAP<br />
71.5 + 826/14 = 130.5dps<br />
<br />
Staff of Disintegration (DPS matches with Devastation)<br />
77.7dps / iLevel 175 / 1125 FAP<br />
77.7 + 1125/14 = 158.1dps<br />
<br />
Everything seems fine, except for one glaring issue: Druid base form DPS is not increasing as we equip higher-iLevel weapons. Our base form DPS is 55. It stays at 55. It has stayed at 55 grinding from 60 to 70. It is staying at 55 when patch 2.1 hits. And now if you calculate the DPS that Druids get with this in mind, a colossal issue surfaces: our relative DPS decreases as we get better gear.<br />
<br />
Staff of Beasts: 55 + 298/14 = 76.7dps, 5.6% lower than Honed Voidaxe<br />
Dreamer's Dragonstaff: 55 + 423/14 = 85.2dps, 8.5% lower than HW Claymore<br />
Terestian's Stranglestaff: 55 + 647/14 = 101.2dps, 10.9% lower than Despair<br />
Wildfury Greatstaff: 55 + 731/14 = 107.2dps, 11.8% lower than World Breaker<br />
Pillar of Ferocity: 55 + 826/14 = 114dps, 12.6% lower than a 130.5dps weapon<br />
Staff of Disintegration: 55 + 135.4dps, 14.4% lower than Devastation<br />
<br />
If you extrapolate this to an item with iLevel of infinity, this disastrous pattern will continue. Now one must ask the question: Why?<br />
<br />
My theory is that the item designers are simply following the pattern set forth by the EOD and MOUL: put enough FAP on the item so that the base DPS + FAP equals the DPS of an equivalent dagger, axe, etc. This would have worked if one-handers were still used as caster-based maces/daggers did not change their base DPS due to changes in iLevel. This is not the case for caster staves; their base DPS does increase. This leads to the problem, however, that Druids do not get to dual wield...<br />
<br />
Now what about the HOBF and AQWH? Yes, their base DPS matches that of an equivalent weapon even without the FAP. I believe that this is because a] they wanted these items to remain useful to other classes (*cough* Warriors) or b] these were the first items they ever made with FAP and they had no idea what to do with them.<br />
<br />
So my question to EJ is: Why do you think our weapons are reverse-scaling? Do you think Blizzard is aware of this issue? Do you think that FAP, overall, is a band-aid over a gushing wound and should be scraped altogether for true weapon scaling?<br />
<br />
Note: Before you make yourself look dumb and post about our talents like Naturalist and self-buffs like Cat Form remember that other classes also have talents and self-buffs. (Weapon Mastery, Dual Wield Specialization and Berserker Stance, Fel Armor are just a few examples)

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Jorazor wrote on May 21st, 2007 2

... that's a long post.

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Koroshiya wrote on May 21st, 2007 3

Scary I know.

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Decinus wrote on May 21st, 2007 4

Interestingly enough, I've read millions of posts about this recently, too. With as long as this problem is going on, I'm not sure what Blizz's problem is with this. If they're thinking it was fair at the lower level items (Mace of Unyielding Life, etc), I wonder what they think of it now with ridiculous items such as<br />
<br />
Pillar of Ferocity<br />
71.5 dps / 550 armor / +47 str +96 stam / 826 FAP<br />
http://www.worldofraids.com/news/hyjal/anetheron-forte-loot.jpg<br />
<br />
We're going to see items with over 1500/1700 FAP. It's definitely not all it's cracked up to be. The problem is, how they calculate FAP is with moonkins. Not bears or cats, but moonkins. Which, then, I assume they think it's fair for a giant owl to offtank with really great weapon damage for a caster; but moonkins aren't affected as much as the other forms with that stupid base 55 AP. I've read so much about this garbage and still come out confused as before.

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